Discussion:
How science discovered Krishna
(for gammel til at besvare)
Jahnu
2020-09-18 00:36:06 UTC
Permalink
http://www.saraswatifilms.org/movies.php (Video 34 mins.)

How science discovered the historical Krishna
By Rakesh Krishnan Simha
Indian Weekender, New Zealand
Thursday, August 26, 2010

"The sea, which had been beating against the shores, suddenly broke
the boundary that was imposed on it by nature. The sea rushed into the
city. It coursed through the streets of the beautiful city. The sea
covered up everything in the city. Arjuna saw the beautiful buildings
becoming submerged one by one. He took a last look at the mansion of
Krishna. In a matter of a few moments it was all over. The sea had now
become as placid as a lake. There was no trace of the beautiful city,
which had been the favourite haunt of all the Pandavs. Dwarka was just
a name; just a memory." -- Mausala Parva, Mahabharat.

Does this account from the ancient Indian epic have a true historical
core? Did Lord Krishna, indeed the favourite Indian deity, walk the
streets of ancient Dwarka? Did Krishna, considered the Lord of the
universe by a billion Hindus, rule the Yaduvanshi clan thousands of
years ago?

Using archaeological, scriptural, literary and astronomical data,
scholars and scientists are coming round to the view that Krishna was
definitely a historical character.

ARCHAEOLOGICAL EVIDENCE

The Rosetta stone, or the key, to the Krishna story is Dwarka. The
strongest archaeological support comes from the structures discovered
in the late 1980s under the seabed off the coast of modern Dwarka in
Gujarat by a team of archaeologists and divers led by Dr S.R. Rao, one
of India's most respected archaeologists. An emeritus scientist at the
marine archaeology unit of the National Institute of Oceanography,
Goa, Rao has excavated a large number of Harappan sites, including the
port city of Lothal in Gujarat.

In his book The Lost City of Dwarka, published in 1999, he writes
about his undersea finds: "The discovery is an important landmark in
the history of India. It has set to rest the doubts expressed by
historians about the historicity of Mahabharata and the very existence
of Dwarka city."

Conducting 12 expeditions during 1983-1990, Rao identified two
underwater settlements, one near the present-day Dwarka and the other
in the nearby island of Bet Dwarka. This tallies with the two Dwarkas
mentioned in the epic. The underwater expeditions won Rao the first
World Ship Trust Award for Individual Achievement. Another important
find by our divers was a seal that establishes the submerged
township's connection with the Dwarka of the Mahabharata.

The seal corroborates the reference made in the ancient text, the
Harivamsa, that every citizen of Dwarka should carry such a seal for
identification purposes. Krishna had ruled that none without the seal
should enter it. A similar seal has been found onshore as well.

LITERARY EVIDENCE

The west coast of Gujarat was the traditional land of the Yadavs, or
Yadus. According to the Bhagavad Puran, Krishna led the Yadavs
thousands of kilometres west to establish Dwarka, so they could start
a new life, safe from their many enemies in the Gangetic Valley.

The Mahabharata says, Dwarka was reclaimed from the sea. Rao's divers
discovered that the submerged city's walls were erected on a
foundation of boulders, suggesting that land indeed was reclaimed from
the sea. One cannot separate Dwarka from Krishna. If the city existed,
then it is true that Krishna ruled over it.

ASTRONOMICAL EVIDENCE

Dr Narhari Achar, professor of physics at the University of Memphis,
Tennessee, has dated the Mahabharata war using astronomy and regular
planetarium software. According to his research conducted in 2004-05,
the titanic clash between the Pandavas and the Kauravas took place in
3067 BC. Using the same software, Dr Achar places the year of
Krishna's birth at 3112 BC.

-Dr Manish Pandit, a nuclear medicine physician in the UK, after
examining the astronomical, archaeological and linguistic evidence,
agrees with Dr Achar's conclusions. Dr Pandit, who is also a
distinguished astrologer and has written several books on the subject,
traced the route of Krishna's journeys to shoot the documentary,
"Krishna: History or Myth?"

Dr Pandit says there are more than 140 astronomy references in the
Mahabharata. Simulations of the night sky have been combined with
geographical descriptions to arrive at various dates. He says the
chances of these references repeating are next to nothing.

According to historian S.M. Ali, the author of Geography of Puranas,
"The geographical matter contained in the Mahabharata is immense. It
is perhaps the only great work which deals with geographic details and
not incidentally, as other works."

WHOSE HISTORY?

Of course, none of the evidence is good enough for the ossified
historians that lord over India's academia, regurgitating the lies
written by British colonial scholars, who were in reality Christian
missionaries.

For the missionaries, destroying the historicity of Krishna was
important if they had any chance of establishing their religion in
India. Also, many European scholars were shocked to learn that Indian
history pre-dated their world by thousands of years. By labelling as
myth the Indian historical sources like the Ved, Mahabharata,
Upanishads, and especially the Puran, which give exact chronologies of
Indian kings including Krishna, the missionaries ensured that Indian
history did not clash with their world view.

That tradition continues. Disregarding all new research, academics
like Romilla Thapar, R.S. Sharma and Irfan Habib have consigned
Krishna to mythology.

In his textbook for Class X, Sharma writes, "Although Lord Krishna
plays an important role in the Mahabharata, the earliest inscriptions
and sculpture pieces found in Mathura between 200 BC and 300 AD do not
attest his presence." What brilliant deduction. Going by Sharma's
logic, any fool can dig at a random site, and upon failing to discover
an artefact, declare Krishna never existed. Sadly, millions of Indian
school children are being taught such lies.

Thapar, in fact, says the Mahabharata is a glorified account of a
skirmish between two "Aryan" tribes, with Krishna merely playing the
role of an agent provocateur.

And what do they do when confronted with the new evidence? They
withdraw into their parallel dystopian world and argue it is not
clinching evidence. But, of course, they will accept as truth the
myths of other religions.

Dr Rao says further digging and diving, in tandem with India's vast
treasure trove of historical facts will further corroborate key dates
of our eventful and glorious past.

As the Upanishads say, pratnakirtim apavirnu -- know thy past. (About
the author: Rakesh Krishnan Simha is a features writer at Fairfax New
Zealand. He has previously worked with Businessworld, India Today and
Hindustan Times, and was news editor with the Financial Express.)

http://www.indianweekender.co.nz/Pages/ArticleDetails/7/1421/Comments...
EXLEX
2020-09-18 01:31:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jahnu
"The sea, which had been beating against the shores, suddenly broke
the boundary that was imposed on it by nature. The sea rushed into the
city. It coursed through the streets of the beautiful city.
...and showed no respect for "the right of way"?




--
EXLEX
Jahnu
2020-09-19 00:35:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by EXLEX
...and showed no respect for "the right of way"?
Don't you have some cadavers to eat?

" As long as there are slaughter-houses, there will be battlefields. A
vegetarian diet is the acid test of humanitarian."

-- Leo Tolstoy
EXLEX
2020-09-19 02:13:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jahnu
Post by EXLEX
...and showed no respect for "the right of way"?
Don't you have some cadavers to eat?
" As long as there are slaughter-houses, there will be battlefields. A
vegetarian diet is the acid test of humanitarian."
-- Leo Tolstoy
You appear to be repeating yourself in mental hiccups?




--
EXLEX
Jahnu
2020-09-20 00:17:27 UTC
Permalink
Ah appear to be repeating mahself in mental hiccups
I know :D


God is the eternal cause of all causes, so there is no question of Him
coming into existence. Nor is His existence dependent on what we
humans figure out about the universe. We can’t even figure out a
logical explanation of life, what to speak of the universe as a whole.

In the Mahabharata, Bhishma says:

acintyah khalu ye bhava na tams tarkena yojayet

'Don’t try and apply mundane logic and reason to the inconceivable.'

(Mahabharata, Bhisma-parva 5.22)

Inconceivable is defined as that which is beyond the empiric reach of
our senses.

Most of the universe is beyond our sensory perception. Someone may
claim that nothing is inconceivable, and they have all kinds of ideas
and speculations about the universe, still, these ideas are just that
- speculations.

To claim, for instance, that it’s not inconceivable to us how the sun
and the rest of the universe came into being, is just a puffed up
delusion.

Knowledge of that which is beyond our sensory reach has to be received
from a proper authority, and the proper authority is guru, sadhu and
sastra - the spiritual master, the sages, and the scriptures.
Knowledge of the universe is recorded in the Vedic literature
(sastra). What happens when we receive knowledge of the universe from
the Vedic sages is that we’ll understand why and how the universe came
into being, and for what reason.

If, however, we reject the spiritual knowledge of the Vedas, relying
only on our own speculative logic and reasoning, the result is that we
will never know the purpose of the universe, and then we will die,
only to be born again to suffer or enjoy the reactions of our
activities.

Big Bang is an idea invented by atheists in their puffed up desire to
rule out God as the first cause. In reality, God is the eternal cause
of all causes.

Lord Brahma (god of creation) says:

Krishna who is known as Govinda is the Supreme Godhead. He has an
eternal blissful spiritual body. He is the origin of all. He has no
other origin and He is the prime cause of all causes. —Brahma-samhita,
5.1

Materialists have the idea that cosmos is an infinite expansion of
space, but cosmos, or the universe, is neither infinite nor eternal.
It is 6 billion kms. in diameter, and it lasts for one breath of God.

According to the Vedic Version, countless universes, as numerous as
mustard seeds in a sack, are generated from the breathing of
Maha-vishnu. It is said that universes emanate from Maha-vishnu’s skin
pores in seed form, as He exhales, then expand and contract again, as
they are sucked back into God, when He inhales.

Thus, universes are created and and destroyed within one breath of
God. The life-time of the universe, which is one breath of God, has
been calculated to be 311 trillion solar years.

So in my mind, that’s where the Big Bang theory comes from. The
singularity - the point from which our universe according to the Big
Bang theory was generated - is actually one of the skin-pores of God.

I guess, that’s where Muslims get the idea that God is great. Where as
in Islam, it is described that God is great, in the Vedic Version it
is described how God is great. Think about it. Imagine how big you
must be, if your one breath lasts 311 trillion years, and universes
are coming out of your skin-pores. That’s nothing less than
inconceivably large. Hence Maha-vishnu - the great Vishnu.

Krishna says:

By human calculation, a thousand ages taken together form the duration
of Brahma's one day (4,32 billion years). And such also is the
duration of his night.(Bg. 8.17)

At the beginning of Brahma's day, all living entities become manifest
from the unmanifest state, and thereafter, when the night falls, they
are merged into the unmanifest again. (Bg. 8.18)

Again and again, when Brahma's day arrives, all living entities come
into being, and with the arrival of Brahma's night they are helplessly
annihilated. (Bg. 8.19)

Yet there is another unmanifest nature, which is eternal and is
transcendental to this manifested and unmanifested matter. It is
supreme and is never annihilated. When all in this world is
annihilated, that part remains as it is. (Bg. 8.20)

That which the Vedantists describe as unmanifest and infallible, that
which is known as the supreme destination, that place from which,
having attained it, one never returns—that is My supreme abode. (Bg.
8.21)
EXLEX
2020-09-20 15:36:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jahnu
I know :D
OH?
You "know"?
You don't "believe" or "have faith"?

...interesting...




--
EXLEX
Jahnu
2020-09-21 12:08:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by EXLEX
OH?
You "know"?
You don't "believe" or "have faith"?
...interesting...
Krishna says:

Now hear, O son of Prtha, how by practicing yoga in full consciousness
of Me, with mind attached to Me, you can know Me in full, free from
doubt.

I shall now declare unto you in full this knowledge, both phenomenal
and numinous. This being known, nothing further shall remain for you
to know.

Out of many thousands among men, one may endeavor for perfection, and
of those who have achieved perfection, hardly one knows Me in truth.

Earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego --
all together these eight constitute My separated material energies.

Besides these, O mighty-armed Arjuna, there is another, superior
energy of Mine, which comprises the living entities who are exploiting
the resources of this material, inferior nature.

All created beings have their source in these two natures. Of all that
is material and all that is spiritual in this world, know for certain
that I am both the origin and the dissolution.

O conqueror of wealth, there is no truth superior to Me. Everything
rests upon Me, as pearls are strung on a thread.


--Bhagavad Gita 7.1-7

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